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POP

External


Since: May 27, 2006
Posts: 116



(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:37 am
Post subject: Re: MFT Size [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>windowsxp>basics (more info?)

"Rainy" <rainy.DeleteThis@sweetwrapz.net> wrote in message
news:%23h3ZQulkGHA.1600@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I appreciate your response, but that is your opinion that
>defragging every
> day is totally unnecessary... I believe that it helps my
> computer.. I know
> of other techs who also defrag every day.. and when I do
> maintenance which
> includes defragging, I feel/see a noticeable difference .. so I
> keep doing
> it.. I am on my computer a great deal, and have a maintenance
> plan... which
> works for me..
>
> I used to have windows xp PRO.. unfortunately it wasn't a valid
> OS..Sad( a
> tech put my computer together and I had no way of knowing
> whether it was
> legitimate of not until windows validation came out) so when I
> was able I
> purchased a new OS.. and got Windows XP HOME.. which is
> slightly different..
> so some of what I am setting up is new to me, for instance, I
> was never
> asked about the MFT when I was running XP Pro.. and this is the
> reason I am
> having a few problems not the fair share you speak about..
> since I am asking
> about my friends computer and my sons.. My computer is running
> in top
> form.. That is why I mess with it.. I want it to stay that
> way!... thanks
> Rainy Smile
>
> "MadDog" <MadDog.DeleteThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:8E95BCF4-E8A8-4B1D-90D3-3BAFBD625549@microsoft.com...
> Defragging your hard drive **every day** is totally
> unnecessary. You seem
> to have more than your fair share of problems. Why do you keep
> messing with
> your computer ??
>
> MD
>
>
>
> "Rainy" wrote:
>
>> the program is telling me that the drives are degraded.. and
>> unless I
>> defrag
>> every day which I do.. since I am on almost 24/7... the drives
>> would
>> degrad.. I trust diskeeper, and as a matter of fact got the
>> program from
>> this group.. someone recommended it.. are you saying you use
>> Diskeeper
>> too.. and you changed the size. and saw nothing beneficial?
>> that's a
>> point,
>> and will rethink this.. just thought it would do no harm to
>> increase the
>> size.. like what could happen? thanks Rainy
>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:%23MRtKpjkGHA.1000@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Instead of blindly doing what some program recommends, I
>> suggest you
>> investigate a bit. Do you have any problems caused by the
>> MFT's smaller
>> size. I will bet a resounding NO!
>>
>> Go to their news groups/forums and read a bit about what
>> others have to
>> say.
>>
>> A few years back I fell for the same thing. I had a few small
>> problems as
>> a
>> result of changing it and saw absolutely no benefit of doing
>> so.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Urban
>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>>
>> Quote from George Ankner:
>> If you knew as much as you think you know,
>> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you
>> knew!
>>
>>
>>
>> "Rainy" <rainy.DeleteThis@sweetwrapz.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23kUldRjkGHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >I am using Diskeeper Pro.. a wonderful program.. but it is
>> >telling me I
>> >need
>> > to increase the size of the MFT ? and I can't find a way to
>> > do that
>> > inside
>> > the program.. any help appreciated.. seems like since the
>> > MFT IS ONLY
>> > 28mb
>> > it fills up quite easily with fragments. So I need to
>> > increase the size!
>> > thanks Rainy ps. keep it simple techs, ok? lol
>> >

I pretty much agree with Ken's response that once a month is
probably a good figure.
I used Norton's System Doctor for a few months to monitor
drive fagmentation on my own machine and the empirical results,
for -me- turned out to be that once a month was usually plenty,
but if I was into heavy use with MS Office creating and killing
all its temp files, etc., then maybe as often as two weeks.
Firing up any of myu video editting stuff (not the MovieMaker
freegie) pretty much dictated a daily degrag if I spend many
hours actually editing video.
The -only- time I ever noticed defrag helping noticeably was
after a day or so of heavy video editing, a very disk-intensive
app, which creates many huge files over and over, deleting and
creating scratch files et al constantly. I also found that doing
a defrag before I did any video rendering could cut hours from
the rendering times too. But, like I said, that's me. Not you.

Then of course there is the question of how much fragmentation is
too much? Ten percent? Fifteen percent? It also depend on
whether you are accessing the fragmented files on the disk. If
not, no problem. If so, maybe you can notice it; it depends on
how many fragments any particular file may have.
For myself, I found I was often feeling like I felt the
fragmentation effects at about fifteen % on the system drive and
almost never on the other data drives, unless I was doing video
work, as already mentioned.
There are really only two instances where I can say I honestly
notice fragmentation: Video work, or installing/deleting a lot
of programs/files.

On the flip side, I don't know that there is anything wrong with
defragging once a week, but I'd have to agree it's probably
overkill. Unless you're the type that sits and watches the
defrag operation working: Then, the more often you do it, the
less time it'll take to defrag. I let my automated defrag run
once a month overnight while the machine is idle. I'll
occasionally run additional defrags, depending on what I've been
doing and how the machine feels, but ... I'm just playing it
safe. I let a drive reach 78% fragmentation once (mistake, not
on purpose), and had to run it three times to get a complete
defrag. Norton's Speed Disk wouldn't even touch it, though the
drive had 40%+ free space. I had to use XP's defrag to do it, so
used it all three times.

So, IMO It's a presonal preference, but I pretty much have to
agree with Ken that once a week is overkill. At the same time I
don't know that it's going to hurt anything either though at once
a week.

Pop

 >> Stay informed about: MFT Size 
Back to top
Login to vote
Rainy

External


Since: May 29, 2006
Posts: 61



(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:37 am
Post subject: Re: MFT Size [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hi Pop, I think you are right, about it being a personal opinion.. but
everyone who has responded has pretty much agreed.. thanks Rainy

"POP" <nobody DeleteThis @devnull.spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:%23ZnwU36kGHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...

"Rainy" <rainy DeleteThis @sweetwrapz.net> wrote in message
news:%23h3ZQulkGHA.1600@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>I appreciate your response, but that is your opinion that
>defragging every
> day is totally unnecessary... I believe that it helps my
> computer.. I know
> of other techs who also defrag every day.. and when I do
> maintenance which
> includes defragging, I feel/see a noticeable difference .. so I
> keep doing
> it.. I am on my computer a great deal, and have a maintenance
> plan... which
> works for me..
>
> I used to have windows xp PRO.. unfortunately it wasn't a valid
> OS..Sad( a
> tech put my computer together and I had no way of knowing
> whether it was
> legitimate of not until windows validation came out) so when I
> was able I
> purchased a new OS.. and got Windows XP HOME.. which is
> slightly different..
> so some of what I am setting up is new to me, for instance, I
> was never
> asked about the MFT when I was running XP Pro.. and this is the
> reason I am
> having a few problems not the fair share you speak about..
> since I am asking
> about my friends computer and my sons.. My computer is running
> in top
> form.. That is why I mess with it.. I want it to stay that
> way!... thanks
> Rainy Smile
>
> "MadDog" <MadDog DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:8E95BCF4-E8A8-4B1D-90D3-3BAFBD625549@microsoft.com...
> Defragging your hard drive **every day** is totally
> unnecessary. You seem
> to have more than your fair share of problems. Why do you keep
> messing with
> your computer ??
>
> MD
>
>
>
> "Rainy" wrote:
>
>> the program is telling me that the drives are degraded.. and
>> unless I
>> defrag
>> every day which I do.. since I am on almost 24/7... the drives
>> would
>> degrad.. I trust diskeeper, and as a matter of fact got the
>> program from
>> this group.. someone recommended it.. are you saying you use
>> Diskeeper
>> too.. and you changed the size. and saw nothing beneficial?
>> that's a
>> point,
>> and will rethink this.. just thought it would do no harm to
>> increase the
>> size.. like what could happen? thanks Rainy
>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:%23MRtKpjkGHA.1000@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Instead of blindly doing what some program recommends, I
>> suggest you
>> investigate a bit. Do you have any problems caused by the
>> MFT's smaller
>> size. I will bet a resounding NO!
>>
>> Go to their news groups/forums and read a bit about what
>> others have to
>> say.
>>
>> A few years back I fell for the same thing. I had a few small
>> problems as
>> a
>> result of changing it and saw absolutely no benefit of doing
>> so.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Urban
>> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
>> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>>
>> Quote from George Ankner:
>> If you knew as much as you think you know,
>> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you
>> knew!
>>
>>
>>
>> "Rainy" <rainy DeleteThis @sweetwrapz.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23kUldRjkGHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> >I am using Diskeeper Pro.. a wonderful program.. but it is
>> >telling me I
>> >need
>> > to increase the size of the MFT ? and I can't find a way to
>> > do that
>> > inside
>> > the program.. any help appreciated.. seems like since the
>> > MFT IS ONLY
>> > 28mb
>> > it fills up quite easily with fragments. So I need to
>> > increase the size!
>> > thanks Rainy ps. keep it simple techs, ok? lol
>> >

I pretty much agree with Ken's response that once a month is
probably a good figure.
I used Norton's System Doctor for a few months to monitor
drive fagmentation on my own machine and the empirical results,
for -me- turned out to be that once a month was usually plenty,
but if I was into heavy use with MS Office creating and killing
all its temp files, etc., then maybe as often as two weeks.
Firing up any of myu video editting stuff (not the MovieMaker
freegie) pretty much dictated a daily degrag if I spend many
hours actually editing video.
The -only- time I ever noticed defrag helping noticeably was
after a day or so of heavy video editing, a very disk-intensive
app, which creates many huge files over and over, deleting and
creating scratch files et al constantly. I also found that doing
a defrag before I did any video rendering could cut hours from
the rendering times too. But, like I said, that's me. Not you.

Then of course there is the question of how much fragmentation is
too much? Ten percent? Fifteen percent? It also depend on
whether you are accessing the fragmented files on the disk. If
not, no problem. If so, maybe you can notice it; it depends on
how many fragments any particular file may have.
For myself, I found I was often feeling like I felt the
fragmentation effects at about fifteen % on the system drive and
almost never on the other data drives, unless I was doing video
work, as already mentioned.
There are really only two instances where I can say I honestly
notice fragmentation: Video work, or installing/deleting a lot
of programs/files.

On the flip side, I don't know that there is anything wrong with
defragging once a week, but I'd have to agree it's probably
overkill. Unless you're the type that sits and watches the
defrag operation working: Then, the more often you do it, the
less time it'll take to defrag. I let my automated defrag run
once a month overnight while the machine is idle. I'll
occasionally run additional defrags, depending on what I've been
doing and how the machine feels, but ... I'm just playing it
safe. I let a drive reach 78% fragmentation once (mistake, not
on purpose), and had to run it three times to get a complete
defrag. Norton's Speed Disk wouldn't even touch it, though the
drive had 40%+ free space. I had to use XP's defrag to do it, so
used it all three times.

So, IMO It's a presonal preference, but I pretty much have to
agree with Ken that once a week is overkill. At the same time I
don't know that it's going to hurt anything either though at once
a week.

Pop

 >> Stay informed about: MFT Size 
Back to top
Login to vote
Phil Weldon

External


Since: May 08, 2005
Posts: 349



(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: MFT Size [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

'Rainy' wrote:
|I am using Diskeeper Pro.. a wonderful program.. but it is telling me I
need
| to increase the size of the MFT ? and I can't find a way to do that inside
| the program.. any help appreciated.. seems like since the MFT IS ONLY 28mb
| it fills up quite easily with fragments. So I need to increase the size!
| thanks Rainy ps. keep it simple techs, ok? lol
_____

How large is the volume? By default NTFS reserves 12.5% of the volume for
the MFT. NTFS will grow the size of the MFT as necessary, up to the limit
of that reserved space, UNLESS the volume is so full that the reserved space
begins to be used for file storage.

The question you SHOULD ask is if space reserved for the MFT is still
available. If it is, trust NTFS. If it is not, consider cleaning up your
volume, expanding the volume size, or adding a hard drive.

For a more apt answer, post the volume size and the unused space size.

Phil Weldon

"Rainy" <rainy RemoveThis @sweetwrapz.net> wrote in message
news:%23kUldRjkGHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
|
|
 >> Stay informed about: MFT Size 
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hbutler

External


Since: Feb 02, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 19) Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:03 am
Post subject: Re: MFT Size [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mar 19, 2:12 pm, "Phil Weldon" <notdisco....DeleteThis@example.com> wrote:
> 'Rainy' wrote:
>
> |I am usingDiskeeperPro.. a wonderful program.. but it is telling me I
> need
> | to increase the size of the MFT ? and I can't find a way to do that inside
> | the program.. any help appreciated.. seems like since the MFT IS ONLY 28mb
> | it fills up quite easily with fragments. So I need to increase the size!
> | thanks Rainy ps. keep it simple techs, ok? lol
> _____
>
> How large is the volume? By default NTFS reserves 12.5% of the volume for
> the MFT. NTFS will grow the size of the MFT as necessary, up to the limit
> of that reserved space, UNLESS the volume is so full that the reserved space
> begins to be used for file storage.
>
> The question you SHOULD ask is if space reserved for the MFT is still
> available. If it is, trust NTFS. If it is not, consider cleaning up your
> volume, expanding the volume size, or adding a hard drive.
>
> For a more apt answer, post the volume size and the unused space size.
>
> Phil Weldon
>
> "Rainy" <r....DeleteThis@sweetwrapz.net> wrote in message
>
> news:%23kUldRjkGHA.1264@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> |
> |

The Master File Table (MFT) is, in a sense, a file containing records
about each file on an NTFS volume. In general terms, one file record
exists in the MFT for each file on the volume. (There are exceptions
to this. For example, a highly-fragmented file can require multiple
file records in the MFT to store the information about the many
fragments that make up the file.) When an NTFS volume is first
created, Windows reserves a portion of the volume for the MFT. As
files are added to the volume, the MFT grows as additional file
records are added to it. As the disk fills, it is possible for the MFT
to outgrow the space originally reserved for it. When this happens,
additional new space is reserved for the MFT, but this new space is
usually not adjacent to the original MFT zone. This is the cause of
MFT fragmentation.

Also, when free space becomes too low, files get written into the
space reserved for the MFT, thus causing the MFT to eventually expand
around these files in a fragmented manner. This is another common
cause of MFT fragmentation.

The MFT configuration tool (Frag Shield) in Diskeeper helps pre-
extend the MFT in a contiguous manner, so future growth of the MFT
will not result in fragmented extensions of the file. Approximately
one spare file record is needed for each file that will occupy the
volume in the future. The number of file records to add is determined
in one of two ways:

Frag Shield recommends the size increase based on the estimated number
of files that could occupy the volume. This estimate is based on the
current average file size and amount of available free space.

You can enter in how many files you estimate will potentially occupy
the volume.

Tip: Pre-extending the MFT can be beneficial in the early stages of
setting up a computer system, including cases where you are creating
"images" of the system to deploy to other computers.

Once the number of file records to add has been determined, Frag
Shield ensures it is safe to add these records. In other words, there
must be adequate free space in the volume (20% after the MFT has been
expanded) and if adding the records would fragment the MFT, or the MFT
is already too fragmented, then the MFT is defragmented and/or files
are moved to allow the MFT to extend continuously. (Windows 2000
requires MFT defragmentation be done at boot-time.)

On an ongoing basis, whenever analysis and defragmentation of the
volume is done, the percentage of free MFT space is checked and if it
is beyond a certain percentage of use, the Reliability pane shows this
information, recommends the MFT configuration tool be run again, and
provides a link to run the tool.

Note: Once the MFT is extended, it cannot be reduced in size without
reformatting the volume.
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