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Next: HELP MCE 2004 - does a Linksys extender work?
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 828
|
(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>windows>mediacenter (more info?)
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Quick question...did you connect those three cables to the same card in your
PC? The sound has to come thru the tuner, not the sound card inputs.
What tuner card do you have?
Dana Cline - MCE MVP
"wildwyw" <wildwyw DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:56A8FC52-A684-4625-B6BE-664E6A52977E@microsoft.com...
> Gene,
> Thanks for replying. Yes, I connected the three (red, white, and yellow)
> cables from my VCR output side to my computer input. Like I said, I can
> download the video from my VCR to Windows Movie Maker on my computer but
> get
> no audio. Not knowing much about this I was wondering if I need to use an
> S-Video cable. I've tried every suggestion in the "help" section to no
> avail.
> --
> wildwyw
>
>
> "Gene E. Bloch" wrote:
>
>> Standard question: did you connect the audio cables to the computer?
>>
>> If you did, then I don't know what went wrong...
>>
>> On 1/20/2007, wildwyw posted this:
>> > Hey Everyone,
>> > First time in a discussion group. I also want to copy VCR tapes to my
>> > new
>> > computer with Windows Movie Maker, edit them, and then make DVD's to
>> > pass out
>> > to family. I have succeeded using Dazzle software but I am getting no
>> > audio.
>> > I have a new Gateway Intel duo core 2 with TV tuner, 2G DDR ram and
>> > 300G
>> > hardrive. Can anybody help me to capture the audio portion of the
>> > tapes.
>> > --
>> > wildwyw
>> >
>> >
>> > "James E" wrote:
>> >
>> >> I Tried that last night but it didn't work, I'll retry it , paying
>> >> attention
>> >> this time, maybe it'll work. I thought it should.
>> >> --
>> >> James E
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "xiowan" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi James:
>> >>> I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the vcr
>> >>> up to
>> >>> the media center computer inputs and in the media center window with
>> >>> live
>> >>> tv playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr
>> >>> before
>> >>> you want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape to
>> >>> the
>> >>> media center and just hit record on the media center remote. My
>> >>> recordings are on Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio
>> >>> out to
>> >>> the computer, the recordings came out fine. I then recorded them
>> >>> to dvd
>> >>> disks from the media center window for storage. The only problem
>> >>> you
>> >>> would have would be they would probably show up on your media center
>> >>> files
>> >>> as whatever show was playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is
>> >>> selected on
>> >>> the back of the vcr.) This isn't a high tech solution, but sure is
>> >>> a
>> >>> simple one and worked fine to archive tapes to a DVD disk.
>> >>>
>> >>> xiowan in tucson
>> >>>
>> >>> "Barry Watzman" wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> If at all possible, locate a Sony Digital-8 camcorder with
>> >>>> "pass-through" A-to-D conversion (most of the Digital-8 camcorders
>> >>>> have
>> >>>> this, if they will play back analog Hi-8 tapes). Setup the
>> >>>> Digital-8
>> >>>> camcorder to use this (see the camcorder manual).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Connect the analog source (a VCR playing the tape to be converted)
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> the camcorder input (use S-Video if you have it, otherwise
>> >>>> composite,
>> >>>> and sound).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Connect the camcorder to the computer using a firewire port. You
>> >>>> may
>> >>>> have to install a driver for the camcorder onto the computer (this
>> >>>> comes
>> >>>> with the camcorder if it's required, it should also be downloadable
>> >>>> (e.g. from the Sony web site)).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Do the "capture" outside of Media Center, under the Windows XP
>> >>>> desktop
>> >>>> using any suitable vide capture product. Examples are Pinnacle
>> >>>> Studio,
>> >>>> DVD Movie Factory, or any of the products by Pinnacle, MGI, Roxio,
>> >>>> U-Lead, etc. However, you can also use Windows Movie Maker 2, which
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> a Microsoft free download for Windows XP and which is normally
>> >>>> installed
>> >>>> as part of Service Pack 2. You will be capturing to uncompressed
>> >>>> AVI
>> >>>> files, which are huge (about 12-14 gigabytes per hour) so have
>> >>>> plenty of
>> >>>> disk space. These are very generic files and almost any video
>> >>>> editing
>> >>>> program can work with them or burn them to a video DVD.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> James E wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Just got my Merdia center
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I have a huge number of VCR Taps of my Grand Kids
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How would I copy them onto the computer???
>> >>>>
>>
>> --
>> Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
>> letters617blochg3251
>> (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
>>
>>
>> |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Dana,
I guess I did. There are three inputs (red, yellow, white) on the back of
my computer the same as on the VCR. The Dazzle software pigtail accessory I
am using has the same inputs for the color cables and then plugs into a USB
2.0 port.
I don't quite understand what you mean when you said the sound comes through
the tuner and not the sound card inputs. I don't know what tuner card I
have. How do I find out and how do I plug into it? This computer does have
a TV tuner.
I sure appreciate your help.
Thanks,
--
wildwyw
"Dana Cline - MVP" wrote:
> Quick question...did you connect those three cables to the same card in your
> PC? The sound has to come thru the tuner, not the sound card inputs.
>
> What tuner card do you have?
>
> Dana Cline - MCE MVP
>
> "wildwyw" <wildwyw.DeleteThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:56A8FC52-A684-4625-B6BE-664E6A52977E@microsoft.com...
> > Gene,
> > Thanks for replying. Yes, I connected the three (red, white, and yellow)
> > cables from my VCR output side to my computer input. Like I said, I can
> > download the video from my VCR to Windows Movie Maker on my computer but
> > get
> > no audio. Not knowing much about this I was wondering if I need to use an
> > S-Video cable. I've tried every suggestion in the "help" section to no
> > avail.
> > --
> > wildwyw
> >
> >
> > "Gene E. Bloch" wrote:
> >
> >> Standard question: did you connect the audio cables to the computer?
> >>
> >> If you did, then I don't know what went wrong...
> >>
> >> On 1/20/2007, wildwyw posted this:
> >> > Hey Everyone,
> >> > First time in a discussion group. I also want to copy VCR tapes to my
> >> > new
> >> > computer with Windows Movie Maker, edit them, and then make DVD's to
> >> > pass out
> >> > to family. I have succeeded using Dazzle software but I am getting no
> >> > audio.
> >> > I have a new Gateway Intel duo core 2 with TV tuner, 2G DDR ram and
> >> > 300G
> >> > hardrive. Can anybody help me to capture the audio portion of the
> >> > tapes.
> >> > --
> >> > wildwyw
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "James E" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I Tried that last night but it didn't work, I'll retry it , paying
> >> >> attention
> >> >> this time, maybe it'll work. I thought it should.
> >> >> --
> >> >> James E
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> "xiowan" wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hi James:
> >> >>> I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the vcr
> >> >>> up to
> >> >>> the media center computer inputs and in the media center window with
> >> >>> live
> >> >>> tv playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr
> >> >>> before
> >> >>> you want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape to
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> media center and just hit record on the media center remote. My
> >> >>> recordings are on Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio
> >> >>> out to
> >> >>> the computer, the recordings came out fine. I then recorded them
> >> >>> to dvd
> >> >>> disks from the media center window for storage. The only problem
> >> >>> you
> >> >>> would have would be they would probably show up on your media center
> >> >>> files
> >> >>> as whatever show was playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is
> >> >>> selected on
> >> >>> the back of the vcr.) This isn't a high tech solution, but sure is
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> simple one and worked fine to archive tapes to a DVD disk.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> xiowan in tucson
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "Barry Watzman" wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> If at all possible, locate a Sony Digital-8 camcorder with
> >> >>>> "pass-through" A-to-D conversion (most of the Digital-8 camcorders
> >> >>>> have
> >> >>>> this, if they will play back analog Hi-8 tapes). Setup the
> >> >>>> Digital-8
> >> >>>> camcorder to use this (see the camcorder manual).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Connect the analog source (a VCR playing the tape to be converted)
> >> >>>> to
> >> >>>> the camcorder input (use S-Video if you have it, otherwise
> >> >>>> composite,
> >> >>>> and sound).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Connect the camcorder to the computer using a firewire port. You
> >> >>>> may
> >> >>>> have to install a driver for the camcorder onto the computer (this
> >> >>>> comes
> >> >>>> with the camcorder if it's required, it should also be downloadable
> >> >>>> (e.g. from the Sony web site)).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Do the "capture" outside of Media Center, under the Windows XP
> >> >>>> desktop
> >> >>>> using any suitable vide capture product. Examples are Pinnacle
> >> >>>> Studio,
> >> >>>> DVD Movie Factory, or any of the products by Pinnacle, MGI, Roxio,
> >> >>>> U-Lead, etc. However, you can also use Windows Movie Maker 2, which
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> a Microsoft free download for Windows XP and which is normally
> >> >>>> installed
> >> >>>> as part of Service Pack 2. You will be capturing to uncompressed
> >> >>>> AVI
> >> >>>> files, which are huge (about 12-14 gigabytes per hour) so have
> >> >>>> plenty of
> >> >>>> disk space. These are very generic files and almost any video
> >> >>>> editing
> >> >>>> program can work with them or burn them to a video DVD.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> James E wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Just got my Merdia center
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I have a huge number of VCR Taps of my Grand Kids
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> How would I copy them onto the computer???
> >> >>>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
> >> letters617blochg3251
> >> (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
> |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 828
|
(Msg. 18) Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:49 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Ahh, I thought you were using a standard TV tuner card to get the VHS signal
in your PC. As for the Dazzler hardware, I have no idea other than that
maybe their drivers aren't quite compatible enough for MovieMaker. You might
mention it in the MovieMaker newsgroup and see if they've heard of it.
Dana Cline - MCE MVP
"wildwyw" <wildwyw.TakeThisOut@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0BFF9294-9D7F-41AC-A4D8-B30C83A9CD5F@microsoft.com...
>
> Dana,
> I guess I did. There are three inputs (red, yellow, white) on the back of
> my computer the same as on the VCR. The Dazzle software pigtail accessory
> I
> am using has the same inputs for the color cables and then plugs into a
> USB
> 2.0 port.
> I don't quite understand what you mean when you said the sound comes
> through
> the tuner and not the sound card inputs. I don't know what tuner card I
> have. How do I find out and how do I plug into it? This computer does
> have
> a TV tuner.
>
> I sure appreciate your help.
> Thanks,
> --
> wildwyw
>
>
> "Dana Cline - MVP" wrote:
>
>> Quick question...did you connect those three cables to the same card in
>> your
>> PC? The sound has to come thru the tuner, not the sound card inputs.
>>
>> What tuner card do you have?
>>
>> Dana Cline - MCE MVP
>>
>> "wildwyw" <wildwyw.TakeThisOut@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:56A8FC52-A684-4625-B6BE-664E6A52977E@microsoft.com...
>> > Gene,
>> > Thanks for replying. Yes, I connected the three (red, white, and
>> > yellow)
>> > cables from my VCR output side to my computer input. Like I said, I
>> > can
>> > download the video from my VCR to Windows Movie Maker on my computer
>> > but
>> > get
>> > no audio. Not knowing much about this I was wondering if I need to use
>> > an
>> > S-Video cable. I've tried every suggestion in the "help" section to no
>> > avail.
>> > --
>> > wildwyw
>> >
>> >
>> > "Gene E. Bloch" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Standard question: did you connect the audio cables to the computer?
>> >>
>> >> If you did, then I don't know what went wrong...
>> >>
>> >> On 1/20/2007, wildwyw posted this:
>> >> > Hey Everyone,
>> >> > First time in a discussion group. I also want to copy VCR tapes to
>> >> > my
>> >> > new
>> >> > computer with Windows Movie Maker, edit them, and then make DVD's to
>> >> > pass out
>> >> > to family. I have succeeded using Dazzle software but I am getting
>> >> > no
>> >> > audio.
>> >> > I have a new Gateway Intel duo core 2 with TV tuner, 2G DDR ram and
>> >> > 300G
>> >> > hardrive. Can anybody help me to capture the audio portion of the
>> >> > tapes.
>> >> > --
>> >> > wildwyw
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "James E" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I Tried that last night but it didn't work, I'll retry it , paying
>> >> >> attention
>> >> >> this time, maybe it'll work. I thought it should.
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> James E
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "xiowan" wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Hi James:
>> >> >>> I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the
>> >> >>> vcr
>> >> >>> up to
>> >> >>> the media center computer inputs and in the media center window
>> >> >>> with
>> >> >>> live
>> >> >>> tv playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr
>> >> >>> before
>> >> >>> you want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> media center and just hit record on the media center remote. My
>> >> >>> recordings are on Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio
>> >> >>> out to
>> >> >>> the computer, the recordings came out fine. I then recorded
>> >> >>> them
>> >> >>> to dvd
>> >> >>> disks from the media center window for storage. The only problem
>> >> >>> you
>> >> >>> would have would be they would probably show up on your media
>> >> >>> center
>> >> >>> files
>> >> >>> as whatever show was playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is
>> >> >>> selected on
>> >> >>> the back of the vcr.) This isn't a high tech solution, but sure
>> >> >>> is
>> >> >>> a
>> >> >>> simple one and worked fine to archive tapes to a DVD disk.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> xiowan in tucson
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> "Barry Watzman" wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> If at all possible, locate a Sony Digital-8 camcorder with
>> >> >>>> "pass-through" A-to-D conversion (most of the Digital-8
>> >> >>>> camcorders
>> >> >>>> have
>> >> >>>> this, if they will play back analog Hi-8 tapes). Setup the
>> >> >>>> Digital-8
>> >> >>>> camcorder to use this (see the camcorder manual).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Connect the analog source (a VCR playing the tape to be
>> >> >>>> converted)
>> >> >>>> to
>> >> >>>> the camcorder input (use S-Video if you have it, otherwise
>> >> >>>> composite,
>> >> >>>> and sound).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Connect the camcorder to the computer using a firewire port. You
>> >> >>>> may
>> >> >>>> have to install a driver for the camcorder onto the computer
>> >> >>>> (this
>> >> >>>> comes
>> >> >>>> with the camcorder if it's required, it should also be
>> >> >>>> downloadable
>> >> >>>> (e.g. from the Sony web site)).
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Do the "capture" outside of Media Center, under the Windows XP
>> >> >>>> desktop
>> >> >>>> using any suitable vide capture product. Examples are Pinnacle
>> >> >>>> Studio,
>> >> >>>> DVD Movie Factory, or any of the products by Pinnacle, MGI,
>> >> >>>> Roxio,
>> >> >>>> U-Lead, etc. However, you can also use Windows Movie Maker 2,
>> >> >>>> which
>> >> >>>> is
>> >> >>>> a Microsoft free download for Windows XP and which is normally
>> >> >>>> installed
>> >> >>>> as part of Service Pack 2. You will be capturing to uncompressed
>> >> >>>> AVI
>> >> >>>> files, which are huge (about 12-14 gigabytes per hour) so have
>> >> >>>> plenty of
>> >> >>>> disk space. These are very generic files and almost any video
>> >> >>>> editing
>> >> >>>> program can work with them or burn them to a video DVD.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> James E wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> Just got my Merdia center
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> I have a huge number of VCR Taps of my Grand Kids
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> How would I copy them onto the computer???
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
>> >> letters617blochg3251
>> >> (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 19) Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:50 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Dana,
I thought of that too, so borrowed one from a cousin and guess what? The
DVD/VCR recorder recorded my VCR tape to a DVD just great, but it uses a
"vob" file extension which my Microsoft Movie Maker won't recognize. I can
get the DVD but cannot download it to Movie Maker and edit it.
I don't know how to change the file from "vob" to "mpeg" which Movie Maker
will accept. I have "Power2Go" and can play the "vob" DVD on my computer
but this program doesn't let me edit. I wanted to edit these old VCR movies
because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be deleted. I am thinking
about taking my new computer back to Best Buy and see if they can figure it
out.
Thanks,
Wildwyw
--
wildwyw
"kalev-" wrote:
> Dana Cline - MVP wrote:
>
> > Another alternative (which violates the principle of having Media Center
> > do it all) is to buy a DVD recorder
>
> I have a spare PC in my "office". (=a bedroom) This is also where the VCR is
> relegated to. I grab using a 2 year old Haup. PVR-250. The advantage is
> that I can record/edit/cut and author a DVD without bothering anyone in the
> livingroom...
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 828
|
(Msg. 20) Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Download the 30-day eval of Video ReDo Plus www.videoredo.com. It's a great
editor and last I checked it could open VOB files and output MPEG files.
Dana Cline - MCE MVP
"wildwyw" <wildwyw DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:A5CD190D-39CC-4F50-A3FA-C43D9A6A6B19@microsoft.com...
> Dana,
> I thought of that too, so borrowed one from a cousin and guess what? The
> DVD/VCR recorder recorded my VCR tape to a DVD just great, but it uses a
> "vob" file extension which my Microsoft Movie Maker won't recognize. I
> can
> get the DVD but cannot download it to Movie Maker and edit it.
>
> I don't know how to change the file from "vob" to "mpeg" which Movie Maker
> will accept. I have "Power2Go" and can play the "vob" DVD on my
> computer
> but this program doesn't let me edit. I wanted to edit these old VCR
> movies
> because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be deleted. I am thinking
> about taking my new computer back to Best Buy and see if they can figure
> it
> out.
> Thanks,
> Wildwyw
> --
> wildwyw
>
>
> "kalev-" wrote:
>
>> Dana Cline - MVP wrote:
>>
>> > Another alternative (which violates the principle of having Media
>> > Center
>> > do it all) is to buy a DVD recorder
>>
>> I have a spare PC in my "office". (=a bedroom) This is also where the VCR
>> is
>> relegated to. I grab using a 2 year old Haup. PVR-250. The advantage is
>> that I can record/edit/cut and author a DVD without bothering anyone in
>> the
>> livingroom...
>>
>>
>> >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Feb 04, 2007
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 21) Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:19 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hi wildwyw, Get VideoReDo. I bought it for $50 a couple of days ago. I does
everything except pour the drinks. Really easy to use, brilliant for editing,
will read most files including .vob, then save them as mpeg, .dvr-ms, and
loads more. Download a trial version valid for 15 days and see. Hope this
helps.
"wildwyw" wrote:
> Dana,
> I thought of that too, so borrowed one from a cousin and guess what? The
> DVD/VCR recorder recorded my VCR tape to a DVD just great, but it uses a
> "vob" file extension which my Microsoft Movie Maker won't recognize. I can
> get the DVD but cannot download it to Movie Maker and edit it.
>
> I don't know how to change the file from "vob" to "mpeg" which Movie Maker
> will accept. I have "Power2Go" and can play the "vob" DVD on my computer
> but this program doesn't let me edit. I wanted to edit these old VCR movies
> because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be deleted. I am thinking
> about taking my new computer back to Best Buy and see if they can figure it
> out.
> Thanks,
> Wildwyw
> --
> wildwyw
>
>
> "kalev-" wrote:
>
> > Dana Cline - MVP wrote:
> >
> > > Another alternative (which violates the principle of having Media Center
> > > do it all) is to buy a DVD recorder
> >
> > I have a spare PC in my "office". (=a bedroom) This is also where the VCR is
> > relegated to. I grab using a 2 year old Haup. PVR-250. The advantage is
> > that I can record/edit/cut and author a DVD without bothering anyone in the
> > livingroom...
> >
> >
> > >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Feb 04, 2007
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 22) Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Xiowan, this is my problem too and your solution sounds brilliant and simple,
but I can't make it work! How did you "hook up" the vcr to the media centre
and what termnals did you use? Then open live TV and use what channel? How do
I find the same channels on the TV and vcr? Be grateful for more help!
"xiowan" wrote:
> Hi James:
> I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the vcr up to
> the media center computer inputs and in the media center window with live tv
> playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr before you
> want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape to the media
> center and just hit record on the media center remote. My recordings are on
> Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio out to the computer, the
> recordings came out fine. I then recorded them to dvd disks from the media
> center window for storage. The only problem you would have would be they
> would probably show up on your media center files as whatever show was
> playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is selected on the back of the vcr.)
> This isn't a high tech solution, but sure is a simple one and worked fine to
> archive tapes to a DVD disk.
>
> xiowan in tucson
>
> "Barry Watzman" wrote:
>
> > If at all possible, locate a Sony Digital-8 camcorder with
> > "pass-through" A-to-D conversion (most of the Digital-8 camcorders have
> > this, if they will play back analog Hi-8 tapes). Setup the Digital-8
> > camcorder to use this (see the camcorder manual).
> >
> > Connect the analog source (a VCR playing the tape to be converted) to
> > the camcorder input (use S-Video if you have it, otherwise composite,
> > and sound).
> >
> > Connect the camcorder to the computer using a firewire port. You may
> > have to install a driver for the camcorder onto the computer (this comes
> > with the camcorder if it's required, it should also be downloadable
> > (e.g. from the Sony web site)).
> >
> > Do the "capture" outside of Media Center, under the Windows XP desktop
> > using any suitable vide capture product. Examples are Pinnacle Studio,
> > DVD Movie Factory, or any of the products by Pinnacle, MGI, Roxio,
> > U-Lead, etc. However, you can also use Windows Movie Maker 2, which is
> > a Microsoft free download for Windows XP and which is normally installed
> > as part of Service Pack 2. You will be capturing to uncompressed AVI
> > files, which are huge (about 12-14 gigabytes per hour) so have plenty of
> > disk space. These are very generic files and almost any video editing
> > program can work with them or burn them to a video DVD.
> >
> >
> > James E wrote:
> >
> > > Just got my Merdia center
> > >
> > > I have a huge number of VCR Taps of my Grand Kids
> > >
> > > How would I copy them onto the computer???
> > >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
|
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External
Since: Feb 04, 2007
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 23) Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:35 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
This is my problem too. I've been successful with Nero, so all the
connections and cards are working ok and Movie Maker picks up the video but I
can't get Movie Maker to pick up the sound as well. Is there a setting
somewhere I'm missing? Have checked through the other suggestions (Control
panel, Sounds and Audio, etc) but I still can't pick up sound. What am I
doing wrong?
"wildwyw" wrote:
> Hey Everyone,
> First time in a discussion group. I also want to copy VCR tapes to my new
> computer with Windows Movie Maker, edit them, and then make DVD's to pass out
> to family. I have succeeded using Dazzle software but I am getting no audio.
> I have a new Gateway Intel duo core 2 with TV tuner, 2G DDR ram and 300G
> hardrive. Can anybody help me to capture the audio portion of the tapes.
> --
> wildwyw
>
>
> "James E" wrote:
>
> > I Tried that last night but it didn't work, I'll retry it , paying attention
> > this time, maybe it'll work. I thought it should.
> > --
> > James E
> >
> >
> > "xiowan" wrote:
> >
> > > Hi James:
> > > I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the vcr up to
> > > the media center computer inputs and in the media center window with live tv
> > > playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr before you
> > > want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape to the media
> > > center and just hit record on the media center remote. My recordings are on
> > > Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio out to the computer, the
> > > recordings came out fine. I then recorded them to dvd disks from the media
> > > center window for storage. The only problem you would have would be they
> > > would probably show up on your media center files as whatever show was
> > > playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is selected on the back of the vcr.)
> > > This isn't a high tech solution, but sure is a simple one and worked fine to
> > > archive tapes to a DVD disk.
> > >
> > > xiowan in tucson
> > >
> > > "Barry Watzman" wrote:
> > >
> > > > If at all possible, locate a Sony Digital-8 camcorder with
> > > > "pass-through" A-to-D conversion (most of the Digital-8 camcorders have
> > > > this, if they will play back analog Hi-8 tapes). Setup the Digital-8
> > > > camcorder to use this (see the camcorder manual).
> > > >
> > > > Connect the analog source (a VCR playing the tape to be converted) to
> > > > the camcorder input (use S-Video if you have it, otherwise composite,
> > > > and sound).
> > > >
> > > > Connect the camcorder to the computer using a firewire port. You may
> > > > have to install a driver for the camcorder onto the computer (this comes
> > > > with the camcorder if it's required, it should also be downloadable
> > > > (e.g. from the Sony web site)).
> > > >
> > > > Do the "capture" outside of Media Center, under the Windows XP desktop
> > > > using any suitable vide capture product. Examples are Pinnacle Studio,
> > > > DVD Movie Factory, or any of the products by Pinnacle, MGI, Roxio,
> > > > U-Lead, etc. However, you can also use Windows Movie Maker 2, which is
> > > > a Microsoft free download for Windows XP and which is normally installed
> > > > as part of Service Pack 2. You will be capturing to uncompressed AVI
> > > > files, which are huge (about 12-14 gigabytes per hour) so have plenty of
> > > > disk space. These are very generic files and almost any video editing
> > > > program can work with them or burn them to a video DVD.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > James E wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Just got my Merdia center
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a huge number of VCR Taps of my Grand Kids
> > > > >
> > > > > How would I copy them onto the computer???
> > > > >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 24) Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hi GuyS,
Thanks for the reply. Did VideoReDo solve your sound problem? Also, how
are you capturing your video using VideoReDo? I.E., are you using a camera,
VCR or DVD you made from a DVD/VCR recorder?
wildwyw
--
wildwyw
"GuyS" wrote:
> Hi wildwyw, Get VideoReDo. I bought it for $50 a couple of days ago. I does
> everything except pour the drinks. Really easy to use, brilliant for editing,
> will read most files including .vob, then save them as mpeg, .dvr-ms, and
> loads more. Download a trial version valid for 15 days and see. Hope this
> helps.
>
> "wildwyw" wrote:
>
> > Dana,
> > I thought of that too, so borrowed one from a cousin and guess what? The
> > DVD/VCR recorder recorded my VCR tape to a DVD just great, but it uses a
> > "vob" file extension which my Microsoft Movie Maker won't recognize. I can
> > get the DVD but cannot download it to Movie Maker and edit it.
> >
> > I don't know how to change the file from "vob" to "mpeg" which Movie Maker
> > will accept. I have "Power2Go" and can play the "vob" DVD on my computer
> > but this program doesn't let me edit. I wanted to edit these old VCR movies
> > because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be deleted. I am thinking
> > about taking my new computer back to Best Buy and see if they can figure it
> > out.
> > Thanks,
> > Wildwyw
> > --
> > wildwyw
> >
> >
> > "kalev-" wrote:
> >
> > > Dana Cline - MVP wrote:
> > >
> > > > Another alternative (which violates the principle of having Media Center
> > > > do it all) is to buy a DVD recorder
> > >
> > > I have a spare PC in my "office". (=a bedroom) This is also where the VCR is
> > > relegated to. I grab using a 2 year old Haup. PVR-250. The advantage is
> > > that I can record/edit/cut and author a DVD without bothering anyone in the
> > > livingroom...
> > >
> > >
> > > >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 828
|
(Msg. 25) Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Assuming you're using the composite output from your VCR, you'll also need
to run the right and left speaker jacks into the RCA inputs on your tuner
card (yellow=video, red=right audio, white=left audio). If you're just
having your VCR send output on channel 3 or 4, then the sound is already in
that signal.
Dana Cline - MCE MVP
"GuyS" <GuyS.RemoveThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:9E5364B6-D5EF-4929-8288-6145AFCCB141@microsoft.com...
> This is my problem too. I've been successful with Nero, so all the
> connections and cards are working ok and Movie Maker picks up the video
> but I
> can't get Movie Maker to pick up the sound as well. Is there a setting
> somewhere I'm missing? Have checked through the other suggestions (Control
> panel, Sounds and Audio, etc) but I still can't pick up sound. What am I
> doing wrong?
>
> "wildwyw" wrote:
>
>> Hey Everyone,
>> First time in a discussion group. I also want to copy VCR tapes to my
>> new
>> computer with Windows Movie Maker, edit them, and then make DVD's to pass
>> out
>> to family. I have succeeded using Dazzle software but I am getting no
>> audio.
>> I have a new Gateway Intel duo core 2 with TV tuner, 2G DDR ram and 300G
>> hardrive. Can anybody help me to capture the audio portion of the tapes.
>> --
>> wildwyw
>>
>>
>> "James E" wrote:
>>
>> > I Tried that last night but it didn't work, I'll retry it , paying
>> > attention
>> > this time, maybe it'll work. I thought it should.
>> > --
>> > James E
>> >
>> >
>> > "xiowan" wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi James:
>> > > I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the vcr
>> > > up to
>> > > the media center computer inputs and in the media center window with
>> > > live tv
>> > > playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr before
>> > > you
>> > > want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape to the
>> > > media
>> > > center and just hit record on the media center remote. My
>> > > recordings are on
>> > > Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio out to the computer,
>> > > the
>> > > recordings came out fine. I then recorded them to dvd disks from the
>> > > media
>> > > center window for storage. The only problem you would have would be
>> > > they
>> > > would probably show up on your media center files as whatever show
>> > > was
>> > > playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is selected on the back of the
>> > > vcr.)
>> > > This isn't a high tech solution, but sure is a simple one and worked
>> > > fine to
>> > > archive tapes to a DVD disk.
>> > >
>> > > xiowan in tucson
>> > >
>> > > "Barry Watzman" wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > If at all possible, locate a Sony Digital-8 camcorder with
>> > > > "pass-through" A-to-D conversion (most of the Digital-8 camcorders
>> > > > have
>> > > > this, if they will play back analog Hi-8 tapes). Setup the
>> > > > Digital-8
>> > > > camcorder to use this (see the camcorder manual).
>> > > >
>> > > > Connect the analog source (a VCR playing the tape to be converted)
>> > > > to
>> > > > the camcorder input (use S-Video if you have it, otherwise
>> > > > composite,
>> > > > and sound).
>> > > >
>> > > > Connect the camcorder to the computer using a firewire port. You
>> > > > may
>> > > > have to install a driver for the camcorder onto the computer (this
>> > > > comes
>> > > > with the camcorder if it's required, it should also be downloadable
>> > > > (e.g. from the Sony web site)).
>> > > >
>> > > > Do the "capture" outside of Media Center, under the Windows XP
>> > > > desktop
>> > > > using any suitable vide capture product. Examples are Pinnacle
>> > > > Studio,
>> > > > DVD Movie Factory, or any of the products by Pinnacle, MGI, Roxio,
>> > > > U-Lead, etc. However, you can also use Windows Movie Maker 2,
>> > > > which is
>> > > > a Microsoft free download for Windows XP and which is normally
>> > > > installed
>> > > > as part of Service Pack 2. You will be capturing to uncompressed
>> > > > AVI
>> > > > files, which are huge (about 12-14 gigabytes per hour) so have
>> > > > plenty of
>> > > > disk space. These are very generic files and almost any video
>> > > > editing
>> > > > program can work with them or burn them to a video DVD.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > James E wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Just got my Merdia center
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I have a huge number of VCR Taps of my Grand Kids
>> > > > >
>> > > > > How would I copy them onto the computer???
>> > > > >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Feb 04, 2007
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 26) Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hi wildwyw. No it hasn't helped with the sound problem. I'm still waiting for
ideas on that.
I 've captured vcr (including sound) using Nero, I've recorded to DVD using
a standard recorder and I've recorded TV programs using MCE. Once you have
any of these on hard disk you can use VideoReDo to load them up, edit easily
and save in the format you want. Download a trial version for free and try
it.
"wildwyw" wrote:
> Hi GuyS,
> Thanks for the reply. Did VideoReDo solve your sound problem? Also, how
> are you capturing your video using VideoReDo? I.E., are you using a camera,
> VCR or DVD you made from a DVD/VCR recorder?
>
> wildwyw
>
>
> --
> wildwyw
>
>
> "GuyS" wrote:
>
> > Hi wildwyw, Get VideoReDo. I bought it for $50 a couple of days ago. I does
> > everything except pour the drinks. Really easy to use, brilliant for editing,
> > will read most files including .vob, then save them as mpeg, .dvr-ms, and
> > loads more. Download a trial version valid for 15 days and see. Hope this
> > helps.
> >
> > "wildwyw" wrote:
> >
> > > Dana,
> > > I thought of that too, so borrowed one from a cousin and guess what? The
> > > DVD/VCR recorder recorded my VCR tape to a DVD just great, but it uses a
> > > "vob" file extension which my Microsoft Movie Maker won't recognize. I can
> > > get the DVD but cannot download it to Movie Maker and edit it.
> > >
> > > I don't know how to change the file from "vob" to "mpeg" which Movie Maker
> > > will accept. I have "Power2Go" and can play the "vob" DVD on my computer
> > > but this program doesn't let me edit. I wanted to edit these old VCR movies
> > > because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be deleted. I am thinking
> > > about taking my new computer back to Best Buy and see if they can figure it
> > > out.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Wildwyw
> > > --
> > > wildwyw
> > >
> > >
> > > "kalev-" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dana Cline - MVP wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Another alternative (which violates the principle of having Media Center
> > > > > do it all) is to buy a DVD recorder
> > > >
> > > > I have a spare PC in my "office". (=a bedroom) This is also where the VCR is
> > > > relegated to. I grab using a 2 year old Haup. PVR-250. The advantage is
> > > > that I can record/edit/cut and author a DVD without bothering anyone in the
> > > > livingroom...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 6
|
(Msg. 27) Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Dana,
All I am using right now is the three jacks, one each red, yellow, and white
from the output side of my VCR to the same colored inputs on my new Gateway
computer. I have not tried using anything else. Seems like this is a big
problem for a lot of people. Those who are successful are making good
recomendations to those of us who are not, but nothing seems to work. Do
you think I should try using the composit S-Video cable? Does that do the
same thing as the red, yellow, and white cables?
Thanks,
Wildwyw
--
wildwyw
"Dana Cline - MVP" wrote:
> Assuming you're using the composite output from your VCR, you'll also need
> to run the right and left speaker jacks into the RCA inputs on your tuner
> card (yellow=video, red=right audio, white=left audio). If you're just
> having your VCR send output on channel 3 or 4, then the sound is already in
> that signal.
>
> Dana Cline - MCE MVP
>
> "GuyS" <GuyS.TakeThisOut@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:9E5364B6-D5EF-4929-8288-6145AFCCB141@microsoft.com...
> > This is my problem too. I've been successful with Nero, so all the
> > connections and cards are working ok and Movie Maker picks up the video
> > but I
> > can't get Movie Maker to pick up the sound as well. Is there a setting
> > somewhere I'm missing? Have checked through the other suggestions (Control
> > panel, Sounds and Audio, etc) but I still can't pick up sound. What am I
> > doing wrong?
> >
> > "wildwyw" wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Everyone,
> >> First time in a discussion group. I also want to copy VCR tapes to my
> >> new
> >> computer with Windows Movie Maker, edit them, and then make DVD's to pass
> >> out
> >> to family. I have succeeded using Dazzle software but I am getting no
> >> audio.
> >> I have a new Gateway Intel duo core 2 with TV tuner, 2G DDR ram and 300G
> >> hardrive. Can anybody help me to capture the audio portion of the tapes.
> >> --
> >> wildwyw
> >>
> >>
> >> "James E" wrote:
> >>
> >> > I Tried that last night but it didn't work, I'll retry it , paying
> >> > attention
> >> > this time, maybe it'll work. I thought it should.
> >> > --
> >> > James E
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "xiowan" wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi James:
> >> > > I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the vcr
> >> > > up to
> >> > > the media center computer inputs and in the media center window with
> >> > > live tv
> >> > > playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr before
> >> > > you
> >> > > want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape to the
> >> > > media
> >> > > center and just hit record on the media center remote. My
> >> > > recordings are on
> >> > > Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio out to the computer,
> >> > > the
> >> > > recordings came out fine. I then recorded them to dvd disks from the
> >> > > media
> >> > > center window for storage. The only problem you would have would be
> >> > > they
> >> > > would probably show up on your media center files as whatever show
> >> > > was
> >> > > playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is selected on the back of the
> >> > > vcr.)
> >> > > This isn't a high tech solution, but sure is a simple one and worked
> >> > > fine to
> >> > > archive tapes to a DVD disk.
> >> > >
> >> > > xiowan in tucson
> >> > >
> >> > > "Barry Watzman" wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > If at all possible, locate a Sony Digital-8 camcorder with
> >> > > > "pass-through" A-to-D conversion (most of the Digital-8 camcorders
> >> > > > have
> >> > > > this, if they will play back analog Hi-8 tapes). Setup the
> >> > > > Digital-8
> >> > > > camcorder to use this (see the camcorder manual).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Connect the analog source (a VCR playing the tape to be converted)
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > the camcorder input (use S-Video if you have it, otherwise
> >> > > > composite,
> >> > > > and sound).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Connect the camcorder to the computer using a firewire port. You
> >> > > > may
> >> > > > have to install a driver for the camcorder onto the computer (this
> >> > > > comes
> >> > > > with the camcorder if it's required, it should also be downloadable
> >> > > > (e.g. from the Sony web site)).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Do the "capture" outside of Media Center, under the Windows XP
> >> > > > desktop
> >> > > > using any suitable vide capture product. Examples are Pinnacle
> >> > > > Studio,
> >> > > > DVD Movie Factory, or any of the products by Pinnacle, MGI, Roxio,
> >> > > > U-Lead, etc. However, you can also use Windows Movie Maker 2,
> >> > > > which is
> >> > > > a Microsoft free download for Windows XP and which is normally
> >> > > > installed
> >> > > > as part of Service Pack 2. You will be capturing to uncompressed
> >> > > > AVI
> >> > > > files, which are huge (about 12-14 gigabytes per hour) so have
> >> > > > plenty of
> >> > > > disk space. These are very generic files and almost any video
> >> > > > editing
> >> > > > program can work with them or burn them to a video DVD.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > James E wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Just got my Merdia center
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I have a huge number of VCR Taps of my Grand Kids
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > How would I copy them onto the computer???
> >> > > >
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Taping from VCR machine |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 828
|
(Msg. 28) Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:19 am
Post subject: Re: Taping from VCR machine [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
The sVideo cable doesn't carry sound so you'll still need the same red and
white cables.
I'm not sure what else to try...
Dana Cline - MCE MVP
"wildwyw" <wildwyw.DeleteThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:230FD634-4A84-4CA9-9A33-CCA8B3001675@microsoft.com...
> Dana,
> All I am using right now is the three jacks, one each red, yellow, and
> white
> from the output side of my VCR to the same colored inputs on my new
> Gateway
> computer. I have not tried using anything else. Seems like this is a big
> problem for a lot of people. Those who are successful are making good
> recomendations to those of us who are not, but nothing seems to work. Do
> you think I should try using the composit S-Video cable? Does that do the
> same thing as the red, yellow, and white cables?
> Thanks,
> Wildwyw
> --
> wildwyw
>
>
> "Dana Cline - MVP" wrote:
>
>> Assuming you're using the composite output from your VCR, you'll also
>> need
>> to run the right and left speaker jacks into the RCA inputs on your tuner
>> card (yellow=video, red=right audio, white=left audio). If you're just
>> having your VCR send output on channel 3 or 4, then the sound is already
>> in
>> that signal.
>>
>> Dana Cline - MCE MVP
>>
>> "GuyS" <GuyS.DeleteThis@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:9E5364B6-D5EF-4929-8288-6145AFCCB141@microsoft.com...
>> > This is my problem too. I've been successful with Nero, so all the
>> > connections and cards are working ok and Movie Maker picks up the video
>> > but I
>> > can't get Movie Maker to pick up the sound as well. Is there a setting
>> > somewhere I'm missing? Have checked through the other suggestions
>> > (Control
>> > panel, Sounds and Audio, etc) but I still can't pick up sound. What am
>> > I
>> > doing wrong?
>> >
>> > "wildwyw" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hey Everyone,
>> >> First time in a discussion group. I also want to copy VCR tapes to my
>> >> new
>> >> computer with Windows Movie Maker, edit them, and then make DVD's to
>> >> pass
>> >> out
>> >> to family. I have succeeded using Dazzle software but I am getting no
>> >> audio.
>> >> I have a new Gateway Intel duo core 2 with TV tuner, 2G DDR ram and
>> >> 300G
>> >> hardrive. Can anybody help me to capture the audio portion of the
>> >> tapes.
>> >> --
>> >> wildwyw
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "James E" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I Tried that last night but it didn't work, I'll retry it , paying
>> >> > attention
>> >> > this time, maybe it'll work. I thought it should.
>> >> > --
>> >> > James E
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > "xiowan" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Hi James:
>> >> > > I'm not a computer expert, but I was able to simply hook the
>> >> > > vcr
>> >> > > up to
>> >> > > the media center computer inputs and in the media center window
>> >> > > with
>> >> > > live tv
>> >> > > playing, select the output channel that is playing on the vcr
>> >> > > before
>> >> > > you
>> >> > > want to record. Then select play on the vcr to send the tape to
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > media
>> >> > > center and just hit record on the media center remote. My
>> >> > > recordings are on
>> >> > > Super VHS tapes and using S-video out and audio out to the
>> >> > > computer,
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > recordings came out fine. I then recorded them to dvd disks from
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > media
>> >> > > center window for storage. The only problem you would have would
>> >> > > be
>> >> > > they
>> >> > > would probably show up on your media center files as whatever show
>> >> > > was
>> >> > > playing on channel 3 or 4 (whichever is selected on the back of
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > vcr.)
>> >> > > This isn't a high tech solution, but sure is a simple one and
>> >> > > worked
>> >> > > fine to
>> >> > > archive tapes to a DVD disk.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > xiowan in tucson
>> >> > >
>> | | |
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