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External
Since: Dec 01, 2004
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:55 am
Post subject: Clean up programme?
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>windowsxp>basics (more info?)
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External
Since: May 20, 2007
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Clean up programme? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:36:10 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
<alan_holmes DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick DeleteThis @mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:%23NoDVGozGHA.3752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> > Hi Alan,
> >
> > What sort of data? Personal files? Old programs? Spyware remnants? Virus
> > debris? There a myriad of programs and utilities available for these sorts
> > of tasks. There are also ways to completely erase a drive and start from
> > scratch, but we need to know precisely what you are trying to achieve.
>
> As I understand it, when you delete files. all that happens is that they no
> longer appear in your vision, but the information is still on the drive, so
> an 'expert' could retieve all the sensitive information you had stored but
> which you thought had been deleted.
>
> So if I had some naughty emails for example, whilst they would no longer be
> there to see, all the information is still on the disc.
>
> It used to be possible to defragment the hard disc, during which all deleted
> files would be properly deleted, you would be left with a completely empty
> part of the drive, but the current defragmenter does not do this.
There are several possible levels of "deleting" files that are on the
drive:
1. When you delete a file, it normally goes to the recycle bin.
However, the whole purpose of having a recycle bin is that files can
be retrieved from it and become usable again.
2. Once the recycle bin is emptied, the file is apparently gone;
Windows no longer has any access to it. But all that has happened is
that the space it used to take has been marked as available to be
used; the file itself is still exactly where it used to be. There are
third-party programs that can recover deleted files if that space has
not yet been reused and the file overwritten.
3. There is also third-party software that can be used to overwrite
any such deleted files, so that the kind of software mentioned above
can't find and retrieve it. Some of this software even performs its
overwriting multiple times. That makes it *much* harder to recover
anything.
4. It's important, however, to recognize that there is *no* way to be
sure that any data is really permanently deleted from the hard disk in
such a way that there is no possibility of ever recovering it. Even
overwriting it multiple times isn't necessarily good enough; there are
sophisticated (and expensive) techniques that can often recover even
overwritten data. For that reason, the US government destroys drives
containing sensitive data in a furnace, rather than relying on
overwriting.
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup |
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External
Since: May 22, 2007
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Clean up programme? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"No way to be sure data has been removed"? Put HD on sidewalk and hit with
sledge hammer.
All kidding aside, if you format the drive, then write all zeros or ones it
is adequate unless of course someone is willing to pay many many thousands
of dollars to retrieve the data. What data is that valuable?
"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake.RemoveThis@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:7snqe39jit04skuj2urvf23d84j78dg1nh@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:36:10 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
> <alan_holmes.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick.RemoveThis@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:%23NoDVGozGHA.3752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> > Hi Alan,
>> >
>> > What sort of data? Personal files? Old programs? Spyware remnants?
>> > Virus
>> > debris? There a myriad of programs and utilities available for these
>> > sorts
>> > of tasks. There are also ways to completely erase a drive and start
>> > from
>> > scratch, but we need to know precisely what you are trying to achieve.
>>
>> As I understand it, when you delete files. all that happens is that they
>> no
>> longer appear in your vision, but the information is still on the drive,
>> so
>> an 'expert' could retieve all the sensitive information you had stored
>> but
>> which you thought had been deleted.
>>
>> So if I had some naughty emails for example, whilst they would no longer
>> be
>> there to see, all the information is still on the disc.
>>
>> It used to be possible to defragment the hard disc, during which all
>> deleted
>> files would be properly deleted, you would be left with a completely
>> empty
>> part of the drive, but the current defragmenter does not do this.
>
>
>
> There are several possible levels of "deleting" files that are on the
> drive:
>
> 1. When you delete a file, it normally goes to the recycle bin.
> However, the whole purpose of having a recycle bin is that files can
> be retrieved from it and become usable again.
>
> 2. Once the recycle bin is emptied, the file is apparently gone;
> Windows no longer has any access to it. But all that has happened is
> that the space it used to take has been marked as available to be
> used; the file itself is still exactly where it used to be. There are
> third-party programs that can recover deleted files if that space has
> not yet been reused and the file overwritten.
>
> 3. There is also third-party software that can be used to overwrite
> any such deleted files, so that the kind of software mentioned above
> can't find and retrieve it. Some of this software even performs its
> overwriting multiple times. That makes it *much* harder to recover
> anything.
>
> 4. It's important, however, to recognize that there is *no* way to be
> sure that any data is really permanently deleted from the hard disk in
> such a way that there is no possibility of ever recovering it. Even
> overwriting it multiple times isn't necessarily good enough; there are
> sophisticated (and expensive) techniques that can often recover even
> overwritten data. For that reason, the US government destroys drives
> containing sensitive data in a furnace, rather than relying on
> overwriting.
>
> --
> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
> Please Reply to the Newsgroup >> Stay informed about: Clean up programme? |
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External
Since: Aug 13, 2004
Posts: 329
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Clean up programme? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Unknown" <unknown.DeleteThis@unknown.kom> wrote in message
news:EUeHi.5640$FO2.5314@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
> "No way to be sure data has been removed"? Put HD on sidewalk and hit
> with sledge hammer.
> All kidding aside, if you format the drive, then write all zeros or ones
> it is adequate unless of course someone is willing to pay many many
> thousands of dollars to retrieve the data. What data is that valuable?
Classified information for one.
The DOD 7 times overwright eliminates all but the most determined of foes.
A couple of methods are:
1. Installing the platters into drives with more accurate track placement
than is possible with commercial equipment.
2. Inspecting the tracks with an electron microsope. This is costly and
time consuming, but it can be done.
Jim
> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake.DeleteThis@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:7snqe39jit04skuj2urvf23d84j78dg1nh@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:36:10 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
>> <alan_holmes.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick.DeleteThis@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>> news:%23NoDVGozGHA.3752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> > Hi Alan,
>>> >
>>> > What sort of data? Personal files? Old programs? Spyware remnants?
>>> > Virus
>>> > debris? There a myriad of programs and utilities available for these
>>> > sorts
>>> > of tasks. There are also ways to completely erase a drive and start
>>> > from
>>> > scratch, but we need to know precisely what you are trying to achieve.
>>>
>>> As I understand it, when you delete files. all that happens is that they
>>> no
>>> longer appear in your vision, but the information is still on the drive,
>>> so
>>> an 'expert' could retieve all the sensitive information you had stored
>>> but
>>> which you thought had been deleted.
>>>
>>> So if I had some naughty emails for example, whilst they would no longer
>>> be
>>> there to see, all the information is still on the disc.
>>>
>>> It used to be possible to defragment the hard disc, during which all
>>> deleted
>>> files would be properly deleted, you would be left with a completely
>>> empty
>>> part of the drive, but the current defragmenter does not do this.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are several possible levels of "deleting" files that are on the
>> drive:
>>
>> 1. When you delete a file, it normally goes to the recycle bin.
>> However, the whole purpose of having a recycle bin is that files can
>> be retrieved from it and become usable again.
>>
>> 2. Once the recycle bin is emptied, the file is apparently gone;
>> Windows no longer has any access to it. But all that has happened is
>> that the space it used to take has been marked as available to be
>> used; the file itself is still exactly where it used to be. There are
>> third-party programs that can recover deleted files if that space has
>> not yet been reused and the file overwritten.
>>
>> 3. There is also third-party software that can be used to overwrite
>> any such deleted files, so that the kind of software mentioned above
>> can't find and retrieve it. Some of this software even performs its
>> overwriting multiple times. That makes it *much* harder to recover
>> anything.
>>
>> 4. It's important, however, to recognize that there is *no* way to be
>> sure that any data is really permanently deleted from the hard disk in
>> such a way that there is no possibility of ever recovering it. Even
>> overwriting it multiple times isn't necessarily good enough; there are
>> sophisticated (and expensive) techniques that can often recover even
>> overwritten data. For that reason, the US government destroys drives
>> containing sensitive data in a furnace, rather than relying on
>> overwriting.
>>
>> --
>> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
>> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>
> >> Stay informed about: Clean up programme? |
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External
Since: May 20, 2007
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Clean up programme? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:49:08 GMT, "Unknown" <unknown.TakeThisOut@unknown.kom>
wrote:
> "No way to be sure data has been removed"? Put HD on sidewalk and hit with
> sledge hammer.
Yep! As I said, physical destruction is the only way to be absolutely
sure.
> All kidding aside, if you format the drive, then write all zeros or ones it
> is adequate
It is certainly adequate for the vast majority of us. Even
zero-filling is more than necessary for most people.
> unless of course someone is willing to pay many many thousands
> of dollars to retrieve the data.
Some thousands probably, but not necessarily "many" thousands.
>What data is that valuable?
Very little, but some is. We all have varying levels of paranoia. Many
people want (or at least say they want) to be absolutely sure their
data can't be recovered. I think it's important for them to be aware
that, short of physical destruction of the drive, there's no such
thing. They can then make the decision to accept a lower level of
security if they think it's appropriate for them.
As I said, the US government (and probably other governments around
the world) goes to the trouble and expense of physical destruction, at
least for some drives. Most of the rest of us don't have state secrets
on our drives, or anything approaching that kind of need, and should
be willing to accept some small degree of risk. I certainly am. But
again, I don't think anyone should use a non-perfect procedure like
just zero-filling without at least realizing that *some* risk remains.
> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake.TakeThisOut@this.is.am.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:7snqe39jit04skuj2urvf23d84j78dg1nh@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:36:10 GMT, "Alan Holmes"
> > <alan_holmes.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick.TakeThisOut@mvps.org> wrote in message
> >> news:%23NoDVGozGHA.3752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >> > Hi Alan,
> >> >
> >> > What sort of data? Personal files? Old programs? Spyware remnants?
> >> > Virus
> >> > debris? There a myriad of programs and utilities available for these
> >> > sorts
> >> > of tasks. There are also ways to completely erase a drive and start
> >> > from
> >> > scratch, but we need to know precisely what you are trying to achieve.
> >>
> >> As I understand it, when you delete files. all that happens is that they
> >> no
> >> longer appear in your vision, but the information is still on the drive,
> >> so
> >> an 'expert' could retieve all the sensitive information you had stored
> >> but
> >> which you thought had been deleted.
> >>
> >> So if I had some naughty emails for example, whilst they would no longer
> >> be
> >> there to see, all the information is still on the disc.
> >>
> >> It used to be possible to defragment the hard disc, during which all
> >> deleted
> >> files would be properly deleted, you would be left with a completely
> >> empty
> >> part of the drive, but the current defragmenter does not do this.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are several possible levels of "deleting" files that are on the
> > drive:
> >
> > 1. When you delete a file, it normally goes to the recycle bin.
> > However, the whole purpose of having a recycle bin is that files can
> > be retrieved from it and become usable again.
> >
> > 2. Once the recycle bin is emptied, the file is apparently gone;
> > Windows no longer has any access to it. But all that has happened is
> > that the space it used to take has been marked as available to be
> > used; the file itself is still exactly where it used to be. There are
> > third-party programs that can recover deleted files if that space has
> > not yet been reused and the file overwritten.
> >
> > 3. There is also third-party software that can be used to overwrite
> > any such deleted files, so that the kind of software mentioned above
> > can't find and retrieve it. Some of this software even performs its
> > overwriting multiple times. That makes it *much* harder to recover
> > anything.
> >
> > 4. It's important, however, to recognize that there is *no* way to be
> > sure that any data is really permanently deleted from the hard disk in
> > such a way that there is no possibility of ever recovering it. Even
> > overwriting it multiple times isn't necessarily good enough; there are
> > sophisticated (and expensive) techniques that can often recover even
> > overwritten data. For that reason, the US government destroys drives
> > containing sensitive data in a furnace, rather than relying on
> > overwriting.
> >
> > --
> > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup
>
--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup >> Stay informed about: Clean up programme? |
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