Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV...

Even with KB941229 and running on a HP m8150n
the video recorder and live TV are still unacceptable on
a state of the art Viewsonic vx2035wm monitor.

Neither the hardware manufacturer nor Microsoft can
seem to understand whqat the "problem" is. The problem
is that this is sold and marketed as a "MultiMedia Machine"
and it doesn't do regular TV very well. Not even with teh DVI
connector and all the best codecs loaded.

"Not in the house, not with a mouse, I do not like Green
Eggs and Ham ..."

Baring all the technical explanations, the "reasonable man"
consumer would think that if he purchased an $1,800 computer
it could display a TV signal on a 19 inch screen good enough to watch it !!!

I am not giving up yet ... The Green Button has some hacks that seem to
work....
trouble is that even the DVD doesn't paly as good as it dows on the old TV







Living the Dream


"DM" wrote:

> As this is an old post I don't know if you're still following it or not.
>
> I think I'm having the same problem as you and I would be interested to know
> if there is any improvement to recorded tv quality when it is player in
> Windows Media Player (not Media Center)?
 >> Stay informed about: Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV... 

It is not a decoder or monitor problem..
The problem is that your graphics card has to upscale the standard
definition analog video frames contain 400K pixels each to frames for your
high resolution display which in the case of a 1920x1080 digital display
having 2.1 megapixels each by inventing the content of the additional 1.2
megapixels required. Some graphic cards do a much better job then others
and video processing equipment costing thousands of dollars is used by the
networks when to upscale SD programs for output on their 1080i or 720p high
resolution digital channels. When you are using an analog and as HDTV
digital tuner you can easily tell the difference between the up scaling done
by your graphics card when using the analog tuner and that is done by the
network for its digital channel for the same program.
Regretfully the higher the resolution of your display the worse the problem
is.

"Cliff Hemstock" <chemstoc.removethis.DeleteThis@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:AA7A7B0F-4ED4-4E5B-8302-BCA24388944A@microsoft.com...
> Even with KB941229 and running on a HP m8150n
> the video recorder and live TV are still unacceptable on
> a state of the art Viewsonic vx2035wm monitor.
>
> Neither the hardware manufacturer nor Microsoft can
> seem to understand whqat the "problem" is. The problem
> is that this is sold and marketed as a "MultiMedia Machine"
> and it doesn't do regular TV very well. Not even with teh DVI
> connector and all the best codecs loaded.
>
> "Not in the house, not with a mouse, I do not like Green
> Eggs and Ham ..."
>
> Baring all the technical explanations, the "reasonable man"
> consumer would think that if he purchased an $1,800 computer
> it could display a TV signal on a 19 inch screen good enough to watch it
> !!!
>
> I am not giving up yet ... The Green Button has some hacks that seem to
> work....
> trouble is that even the DVD doesn't paly as good as it dows on the old TV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Living the Dream
>
>
> "DM" wrote:
>
>> As this is an old post I don't know if you're still following it or not.
>>
>> I think I'm having the same problem as you and I would be interested to
>> know
>> if there is any improvement to recorded tv quality when it is player in
>> Windows Media Player (not Media Center)?
 >> Stay informed about: Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV... 

Sorry Jamie your above post had not yet shown up on my system when I started
writing mine.
JW
"JW" <JW.TakeThisOut@nospam.nspam> wrote in message
news:1A39BFDB-E811-43FB-8832-EDB836346B31@microsoft.com...
> It is not a decoder or monitor problem..
> The problem is that your graphics card has to upscale the standard
> definition analog video frames contain 400K pixels each to frames for your
> high resolution display which in the case of a 1920x1080 digital display
> having 2.1 megapixels each by inventing the content of the additional 1.2
> megapixels required. Some graphic cards do a much better job then others
> and video processing equipment costing thousands of dollars is used by the
> networks when to upscale SD programs for output on their 1080i or 720p
> high resolution digital channels. When you are using an analog and as
> HDTV digital tuner you can easily tell the difference between the up
> scaling done by your graphics card when using the analog tuner and that is
> done by the network for its digital channel for the same program.
> Regretfully the higher the resolution of your display the worse the
> problem is.
>
> "Cliff Hemstock" <chemstoc.removethis.TakeThisOut@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:AA7A7B0F-4ED4-4E5B-8302-BCA24388944A@microsoft.com...
>> Even with KB941229 and running on a HP m8150n
>> the video recorder and live TV are still unacceptable on
>> a state of the art Viewsonic vx2035wm monitor.
>>
>> Neither the hardware manufacturer nor Microsoft can
>> seem to understand whqat the "problem" is. The problem
>> is that this is sold and marketed as a "MultiMedia Machine"
>> and it doesn't do regular TV very well. Not even with teh DVI
>> connector and all the best codecs loaded.
>>
>> "Not in the house, not with a mouse, I do not like Green
>> Eggs and Ham ..."
>>
>> Baring all the technical explanations, the "reasonable man"
>> consumer would think that if he purchased an $1,800 computer
>> it could display a TV signal on a 19 inch screen good enough to watch it
>> !!!
>>
>> I am not giving up yet ... The Green Button has some hacks that seem to
>> work....
>> trouble is that even the DVD doesn't paly as good as it dows on the old
>> TV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Living the Dream
>>
>>
>> "DM" wrote:
>>
>>> As this is an old post I don't know if you're still following it or not.
>>>
>>> I think I'm having the same problem as you and I would be interested to
>>> know
>>> if there is any improvement to recorded tv quality when it is player in
>>> Windows Media Player (not Media Center)?
>
 >> Stay informed about: Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV... 

Maybe a little more explanation of what the image looks like would help.

If you are watch SD on a 19" PC monitor (full screen), it's not going to
look like a PC image. SD is only 480 lines of resolution, which is
essentially the lowest resolution for PC monitor. When you have the monitor
set for a higher res (like 1280x1024), the image will look worse than a TV,
because the system has invent all those extra pixels needed to fill the
screen. No different than taking a low res thumbnail and zooming to full
screen; the resolution is what it is. You are also sitting a couple of feet
from the image as opposed to across the room from a TV

How does the image look if you aren't running it full screen?

Have you connected the system to a SD TV, to see what it looks like.
--
James
Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), FL

"Cliff Hemstock" <chemstoc.removethis.DeleteThis@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:AA7A7B0F-4ED4-4E5B-8302-BCA24388944A@microsoft.com...
> Even with KB941229 and running on a HP m8150n
> the video recorder and live TV are still unacceptable on
> a state of the art Viewsonic vx2035wm monitor.
>
> Neither the hardware manufacturer nor Microsoft can
> seem to understand whqat the "problem" is. The problem
> is that this is sold and marketed as a "MultiMedia Machine"
> and it doesn't do regular TV very well. Not even with teh DVI
> connector and all the best codecs loaded.
>
> "Not in the house, not with a mouse, I do not like Green
> Eggs and Ham ..."
>
> Baring all the technical explanations, the "reasonable man"
> consumer would think that if he purchased an $1,800 computer
> it could display a TV signal on a 19 inch screen good enough to watch it
> !!!
>
> I am not giving up yet ... The Green Button has some hacks that seem to
> work....
> trouble is that even the DVD doesn't paly as good as it dows on the old TV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Living the Dream
>
>
> "DM" wrote:
>
>> As this is an old post I don't know if you're still following it or not.
>>
>> I think I'm having the same problem as you and I would be interested to
>> know
>> if there is any improvement to recorded tv quality when it is player in
>> Windows Media Player (not Media Center)?
 >> Stay informed about: Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV... 

So what is the fix? Get Digital TV signal from cable Co ?????

II just set up the Video card (G-force) to not scale and the
image fills about the center half of my screen, so I see where you are
coming from.

I think this ranks up there with the people THINKING that because they
have an HD TV they are watching HD TV ....

Thanks for the input / help

--
Living the Dream


"Jaime" wrote:

> Maybe a little more explanation of what the image looks like would help.
>
> If you are watch SD on a 19" PC monitor (full screen), it's not going to
> look like a PC image. SD is only 480 lines of resolution, which is
> essentially the lowest resolution for PC monitor. When you have the monitor
> set for a higher res (like 1280x1024), the image will look worse than a TV,
> because the system has invent all those extra pixels needed to fill the
> screen. No different than taking a low res thumbnail and zooming to full
> screen; the resolution is what it is. You are also sitting a couple of feet
> from the image as opposed to across the room from a TV
>
> How does the image look if you aren't running it full screen?
>
> Have you connected the system to a SD TV, to see what it looks like.
> --
> James
> Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), FL
>
> "Cliff Hemstock" <chemstoc.removethis DeleteThis @insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:AA7A7B0F-4ED4-4E5B-8302-BCA24388944A@microsoft.com...
> > Even with KB941229 and running on a HP m8150n
> > the video recorder and live TV are still unacceptable on
> > a state of the art Viewsonic vx2035wm monitor.
> >
> > Neither the hardware manufacturer nor Microsoft can
> > seem to understand whqat the "problem" is. The problem
> > is that this is sold and marketed as a "MultiMedia Machine"
> > and it doesn't do regular TV very well. Not even with teh DVI
> > connector and all the best codecs loaded.
> >
> > "Not in the house, not with a mouse, I do not like Green
> > Eggs and Ham ..."
> >
> > Baring all the technical explanations, the "reasonable man"
> > consumer would think that if he purchased an $1,800 computer
> > it could display a TV signal on a 19 inch screen good enough to watch it
> > !!!
> >
> > I am not giving up yet ... The Green Button has some hacks that seem to
> > work....
> > trouble is that even the DVD doesn't paly as good as it dows on the old TV
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Living the Dream
> >
> >
> > "DM" wrote:
> >
> >> As this is an old post I don't know if you're still following it or not.
> >>
> >> I think I'm having the same problem as you and I would be interested to
> >> know
> >> if there is any improvement to recorded tv quality when it is player in
> >> Windows Media Player (not Media Center)?
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV... 

No problem, you gave the technical detail :O)
--
James
Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), FL

"JW" <JW DeleteThis @nospam.nspam> wrote in message
news:A5C3EBB4-7C1B-40A7-ABA1-320BE9F07DE0@microsoft.com...
> Sorry Jamie your above post had not yet shown up on my system when I
> started writing mine.
> JW
> "JW" <JW DeleteThis @nospam.nspam> wrote in message
> news:1A39BFDB-E811-43FB-8832-EDB836346B31@microsoft.com...
>> It is not a decoder or monitor problem..
>> The problem is that your graphics card has to upscale the standard
>> definition analog video frames contain 400K pixels each to frames for
>> your high resolution display which in the case of a 1920x1080 digital
>> display having 2.1 megapixels each by inventing the content of the
>> additional 1.2 megapixels required. Some graphic cards do a much better
>> job then others and video processing equipment costing thousands of
>> dollars is used by the networks when to upscale SD programs for output on
>> their 1080i or 720p high resolution digital channels. When you are using
>> an analog and as HDTV digital tuner you can easily tell the difference
>> between the up scaling done by your graphics card when using the analog
>> tuner and that is done by the network for its digital channel for the
>> same program.
>> Regretfully the higher the resolution of your display the worse the
>> problem is.
>>
>> "Cliff Hemstock" <chemstoc.removethis DeleteThis @insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> news:AA7A7B0F-4ED4-4E5B-8302-BCA24388944A@microsoft.com...
>>> Even with KB941229 and running on a HP m8150n
>>> the video recorder and live TV are still unacceptable on
>>> a state of the art Viewsonic vx2035wm monitor.
>>>
>>> Neither the hardware manufacturer nor Microsoft can
>>> seem to understand whqat the "problem" is. The problem
>>> is that this is sold and marketed as a "MultiMedia Machine"
>>> and it doesn't do regular TV very well. Not even with teh DVI
>>> connector and all the best codecs loaded.
>>>
>>> "Not in the house, not with a mouse, I do not like Green
>>> Eggs and Ham ..."
>>>
>>> Baring all the technical explanations, the "reasonable man"
>>> consumer would think that if he purchased an $1,800 computer
>>> it could display a TV signal on a 19 inch screen good enough to watch it
>>> !!!
>>>
>>> I am not giving up yet ... The Green Button has some hacks that seem to
>>> work....
>>> trouble is that even the DVD doesn't paly as good as it dows on the old
>>> TV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Living the Dream
>>>
>>>
>>> "DM" wrote:
>>>
>>>> As this is an old post I don't know if you're still following it or
>>>> not.
>>>>
>>>> I think I'm having the same problem as you and I would be interested to
>>>> know
>>>> if there is any improvement to recorded tv quality when it is player in
>>>> Windows Media Player (not Media Center)?
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV... 

Digital SD signal is still the same res, only way to improve is with HD
channels. However, I think that if the SD signal or a DVD is playing at
normal size, it does look better on a monitor than most TV's.

Same issue occurs on many HD TV that do a poor job of upscaling the SD
signal to HD display -- it looks worse than on an old SD TV.
--
James
Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), FL


"Cliff Hemstock" <chemstoc.removethis.RemoveThis@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:EFCC09CD-BE68-4849-81BA-0DE7A878774B@microsoft.com...
> So what is the fix? Get Digital TV signal from cable Co ?????
>
> II just set up the Video card (G-force) to not scale and the
> image fills about the center half of my screen, so I see where you are
> coming from.
>
> I think this ranks up there with the people THINKING that because they
> have an HD TV they are watching HD TV ....
>
> Thanks for the input / help
>
> --
> Living the Dream
>
>
> "Jaime" wrote:
>
>> Maybe a little more explanation of what the image looks like would help.
>>
>> If you are watch SD on a 19" PC monitor (full screen), it's not going to
>> look like a PC image. SD is only 480 lines of resolution, which is
>> essentially the lowest resolution for PC monitor. When you have the
>> monitor
>> set for a higher res (like 1280x1024), the image will look worse than a
>> TV,
>> because the system has invent all those extra pixels needed to fill the
>> screen. No different than taking a low res thumbnail and zooming to full
>> screen; the resolution is what it is. You are also sitting a couple of
>> feet
>> from the image as opposed to across the room from a TV
>>
>> How does the image look if you aren't running it full screen?
>>
>> Have you connected the system to a SD TV, to see what it looks like.
>> --
>> James
>> Orlando (Goofy says "Hey!"), FL
>>
>> "Cliff Hemstock" <chemstoc.removethis.RemoveThis@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>> news:AA7A7B0F-4ED4-4E5B-8302-BCA24388944A@microsoft.com...
>> > Even with KB941229 and running on a HP m8150n
>> > the video recorder and live TV are still unacceptable on
>> > a state of the art Viewsonic vx2035wm monitor.
>> >
>> > Neither the hardware manufacturer nor Microsoft can
>> > seem to understand whqat the "problem" is. The problem
>> > is that this is sold and marketed as a "MultiMedia Machine"
>> > and it doesn't do regular TV very well. Not even with teh DVI
>> > connector and all the best codecs loaded.
>> >
>> > "Not in the house, not with a mouse, I do not like Green
>> > Eggs and Ham ..."
>> >
>> > Baring all the technical explanations, the "reasonable man"
>> > consumer would think that if he purchased an $1,800 computer
>> > it could display a TV signal on a 19 inch screen good enough to watch
>> > it
>> > !!!
>> >
>> > I am not giving up yet ... The Green Button has some hacks that seem to
>> > work....
>> > trouble is that even the DVD doesn't paly as good as it dows on the old
>> > TV
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Living the Dream
>> >
>> >
>> > "DM" wrote:
>> >
>> >> As this is an old post I don't know if you're still following it or
>> >> not.
>> >>
>> >> I think I'm having the same problem as you and I would be interested
>> >> to
>> >> know
>> >> if there is any improvement to recorded tv quality when it is player
>> >> in
>> >> Windows Media Player (not Media Center)?
>>
>>
>>
 >> Stay informed about: Bad quality in Live and Recorded TV...