How to make em dash an easy quick character

You're right. This is bizarre. It was an em dash (asc 0151) in the e-mail
I drafted, then after it was sent to the group it turned into a hyphen (asc
45).


"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar.DeleteThis@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:qqt8k2p1ai66soh20f3oduub7q0gdjk6kf@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:04:43 -0500, "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.DeleteThis@att.net>
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >My sample of em dash did not work well in the sent message, at least as
> >viewed in my computer. Instead of looking like an em dash, it looks like
a
> >hyphen, though when I was drafting the message it looked correct. I
don't
> >know why that happened. In fact I've never seen that happen before.
>
> It *is* a hyphen. When I save your text to a file and view it using
> Debug or Edit, the "-" character displays as 2Dh or 45 dec, not 97h or
> 151 dec.
>
> >"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.DeleteThis@att.net> wrote in message
> >news:ewfjkby%23GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> >> The em dash is used to indicate a sudden break in thought:
> >>
> >> They came and saw-but they did not conquer.
> >>
> >> People often use the double hyphen instead of the em dash:
> >>
> >> They came and saw--but they did not conquer.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

Whether or not to put spaces around the em dash is a matter of choice. Go
to the library and look at several books and you'll see it's done both ways.
I personally prefer it without spaces.


"... et al." <look.DeleteThis@sig.bcause.this.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:7p21h.21153$E02.8338@newsb.telia.net...
> Larry wrote:
>
> > The em dash is used to indicate a sudden break in thought:
> >
> > They came and saw-but they did not conquer.
> >
> > People often use the double hyphen instead of the em dash:
> >
> > They came and saw--but they did not conquer.
>
> I think this looks strange without any spaces.
> Makes me think, what is "saw-but" / "saw--but"?
> Shall it really be like that?
> I think that with spaces looks better, like:
> I'm staying out of this -- now, here's my opinion.
>
> > The double hyphen is used with Courier font (which cannot properly print
the
> > em dash) and also is used very commonly online because of the problem I
> > described in my original post. It is almost never used in printed
> > publications. Except for Courier, the double hyphen should never be
used,
> > but it is used because the lack of a regular key assignment for it and
> > because in some e-mails it doesn't display properly.
>
> Why is Courier special?
> Do you really mean "Except for Courier, ..." or rather "Except when
> using non-proportional (fixed-width) fonts, ..."?
>
> --
> Nah-ah, i'm staying out of this -- now, here's my opinion.
>
> Please followup in the newsgroup.
> E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

This was not a fluke. I've tried it again and the em dash again turns into
a hyphen.

Em dash: To be or not to be-that is the question.

I typed the above as an em dash and it displayed as such. When I looked at
it in the Outbox in OE it had changed into a hyphen. It must be some odd
thing happening with my computer.







"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@att.net> wrote in message
news:u3bloiy%23GHA.2300@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> My sample of em dash did not work well in the sent message, at least as
> viewed in my computer. Instead of looking like an em dash, it looks like
a
> hyphen, though when I was drafting the message it looked correct. I don't
> know why that happened. In fact I've never seen that happen before.
>
>
> "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@att.net> wrote in message
> news:ewfjkby%23GHA.3952@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> > The em dash is used to indicate a sudden break in thought:
> >
> > They came and saw-but they did not conquer.
> >
> > People often use the double hyphen instead of the em dash:
> >
> > They came and saw--but they did not conquer.
> >
> > The double hyphen is used with Courier font (which cannot properly print
> the
> > em dash) and also is used very commonly online because of the problem I
> > described in my original post. It is almost never used in printed
> > publications. Except for Courier, the double hyphen should never be
used,
> > but it is used because the lack of a regular key assignment for it and
> > because in some e-mails it doesn't display properly.
> >
> >
> > <jyazel.TakeThisOut@ds.net> wrote in message
> > news:4838k2dsu7rdfv3oju2pp0pq7b22bhfl71@4ax.com...
> > >
> > > Would somebody tell me what an em dash is? I'm a little dense today.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> >
>
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 16:06:06 -0500, "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.RemoveThis@att.net>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>You're right. This is bizarre. It was an em dash (asc 0151) in the e-mail
>I drafted, then after it was sent to the group it turned into a hyphen (asc
>45).

If I paste the em dash from a Windows app into a DOS box, then it
displays as an underscore (ASC 95 dec). If I use Alt+151 rather than
Alt+0151, then the resultant character (ASC 151) displays the same way
in a DOS box as it does in Windows. An Alt+0151 in Notepad displays as
a black square, probably due to the font.

In your case the problem appears to be that you are now posting using
the following setting ...

charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

.... whereas in your initial post you used ...

charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

7-bit encoding allows for only 128 characters, therefore character #
151 would need to be approximated by its closest 7-bit "equivalent".
Well, that's how it looks to me, anyway.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:09:19 -0400, jyazel.TakeThisOut@ds.net put finger to
keyboard and composed:

> Would somebody tell me what an em dash is? I'm a little dense today.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jack

You could read the first line of the OP's initial post and do what it
says, ie hold down the Alt key and press 0 on the numeric keypad, then
1 then 5 then 1, and then release the Alt key.

Otherwise go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash

Or go to Start->Run and type "charmap" to launch Character Map. The em
dash is directly below the "7", on the 4th row. If Character Map is
not installed, go to Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs -> Windows
Setup -> System Tools -> Details.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:02:27 -0500, "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM DeleteThis @att.net>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Sorry, I see what you mean. When you said "type Alt+0151" I thought you
>meant type the characters "Alt+0151", but you meant hold down Alt and type
>0151.
>
>It's too late to mess with this furrther tonight. But I've backed up the
>file and I'll try this tomorrow.

Here, I've done it for you:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/kbdus.kbd

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

Franc,

Here it is-my own customized em dash-which I just typed by pressing Shift+\
and there it is Fantastic. No more hassling with Alt+0151.

Of course I've saved the original file in case I want to go back to it.

And if I want to type the "pipe," I just do Alt+124 et voila: | . But I'd
say in the last eight years I've typed the pipe maybe 20 times, and typed an
em dash many thousands of times.

I've tested it in every application.

Thank you for this.

Larry



"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar RemoveThis @iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:k00ak2dsuhvld8h8g5gesl29iu84ml8gv0@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:02:27 -0500, "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM RemoveThis @att.net>
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Sorry, I see what you mean. When you said "type Alt+0151" I thought you
> >meant type the characters "Alt+0151", but you meant hold down Alt and
type
> >0151.
> >
> >It's too late to mess with this furrther tonight. But I've backed up
the
> >file and I'll try this tomorrow.
>
> Here, I've done it for you:
> http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/kbdus.kbd
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

Except, for some reason, as we discussed before, the em dashes in a news
message are being changed into hyphens when I send them. (This only happens
in unformatted plain text news messages.)



"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.RemoveThis@att.net> wrote in message
news:%23MjcQj7%23GHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Franc,
>
> Here it is-my own customized em dash-which I just typed by pressing
Shift+\
> and there it is Fantastic. No more hassling with Alt+0151.
>
> Of course I've saved the original file in case I want to go back to it.
>
> And if I want to type the "pipe," I just do Alt+124 et voila: | . But
I'd
> say in the last eight years I've typed the pipe maybe 20 times, and typed
an
> em dash many thousands of times.
>
> I've tested it in every application.
>
> Thank you for this.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> "Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar.RemoveThis@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:k00ak2dsuhvld8h8g5gesl29iu84ml8gv0@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:02:27 -0500, "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.RemoveThis@att.net>
> > put finger to keyboard and composed:
> >
> > >Sorry, I see what you mean. When you said "type Alt+0151" I thought
you
> > >meant type the characters "Alt+0151", but you meant hold down Alt and
> type
> > >0151.
> > >
> > >It's too late to mess with this furrther tonight. But I've backed up
> the
> > >file and I'll try this tomorrow.
> >
> > Here, I've done it for you:
> > http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/kbdus.kbd
> >
> > - Franc Zabkar
> > --
> > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
>
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

Franc,

Would the file you gave me work with any version of Windows?

Larry


"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar.TakeThisOut@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:k00ak2dsuhvld8h8g5gesl29iu84ml8gv0@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 02:02:27 -0500, "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@att.net>
> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Sorry, I see what you mean. When you said "type Alt+0151" I thought you
> >meant type the characters "Alt+0151", but you meant hold down Alt and
type
> >0151.
> >
> >It's too late to mess with this furrther tonight. But I've backed up
the
> >file and I'll try this tomorrow.
>
> Here, I've done it for you:
> http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/kbdus.kbd
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.DeleteThis@att.net> wrote in message
news:OJoJ9%235%23GHA.4708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Whether or not to put spaces around the em dash is a matter of choice. Go
> to the library and look at several books and you'll see it's done both
> ways.
> I personally prefer it without spaces.
[]
Remember that, should your text pass through anything which only allows
7-bit characters (which still applies to some of usenet), leaving out the
spaces will result in two words joined by a hyphen.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar.TakeThisOut@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:hb18k2paond792fgh761ambvvu2e91otq9@4ax.com...
[]
>>sequences of all the characters produced by the keyboard, including the |
>>character. There is only one instance of | .
>
> YUIOP{}|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>?|`1234567890-=QWERTYUIOP[]\ASDFGHJK
> ^ ^
[]
Aargh, fonts strike again: as I see that in Outlook Express, which seems to
be using Times New Roman for the moment, the two carets aren't under the |
characters: the first one is between I and O, and the second a little to the
left of centre of H.

By counting spaces, I can see that, with an equispaced font, the first at
least would be in the right place.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.DeleteThis@att.net> wrote in message
news:%23haljo7%23GHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Except, for some reason, as we discussed before, the em dashes in a news
> message are being changed into hyphens when I send them. (This only
> happens
> in unformatted plain text news messages.)
[]
Plain text doesn't include any character beyond 127 (and 127 is the delete
character, the proper one that is). Some systems may allow characters beyond
that to pass through, but there's no guarantee that they will be displayed
on someone else's machine as the same character: beyond 127, at least in
"plain text", there is no standard. There is some uniformity if your message
system specifies a certain extended character set - _if_ that character set
is implemented at the remote end; it's unwise to assume that for usenet,
though.

The em dash (which I've _never_ felt the need for - but horses for courses!)
is fine in a controlled environment, where you know everyone is using the
same software, or at least the same character sets and 8-bit encoding.
Otherwise, it joins the pound sign, all the accented/umlauted letters, and
so on, in being fragile.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character 

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:06:53 -0000, "J. P. Gilliver"
<john.gilliver.TakeThisOut@baesystems.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@att.net> wrote in message
>news:OJoJ9%235%23GHA.4708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Whether or not to put spaces around the em dash is a matter of choice. Go
>> to the library and look at several books and you'll see it's done both
>> ways.
>> I personally prefer it without spaces.
>[]
>Remember that, should your text pass through anything which only allows
>7-bit characters (which still applies to some of usenet), leaving out the
>spaces will result in two words joined by a hyphen.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, the OP has switched to 7-bit encoding
after initially posting with 8-bit encoding. Could that be his
problem?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
 >> Stay informed about: How to make em dash an easy quick character